Let me know your thoughts on this one. Do you agree with all the points? What’s your reaction to stuff like this?
This was an appendix at the end of the notes for the talk “Decision Making and the Will of God”. I actually hesitated publishing this, but I really would like your feedback. Let me know what you think.
Moral and Wisdom Principles for Choosing a Wife
“Decision Making and the Will of God” ©2000 Gregory Koukl
Stand to Reason, 1-800-2-REASON or www.str.org
Here is an example of how I applied the wisdom model to the issue of choosing a
wife. It’s a list of guidelines from Scripture one needs to consider when choosing a bride (women will need to make a few adjustment concerning husbands, but you get the idea). In addition to the moral consideration of choosing someone who is a committed Christian (2 Corinthians 6:14-18), men should also ask the following questions. Is she:
- Someone you can endeavor to love as Christ loves the church (Ephesians 5:25)?
- Already beginning to show respect for you as the head of your relationship (Ephesians 5:33)?
- Showing a willingness to be subject to your leadership (Ephesians 5:24)?
- Someone you, as a husband, can be subject to in the fear of the Lord (there is a type of submission that works both ways: Ephesians 5:21)?
- Someone you can joyfully fulfill your sexual responsibilities to (1 Corinthians 7:3-5, Proverbs 5:15-20)?
- Someone you can live in peace with (1 Corinthians 7:15)?
- Someone you can provide for adequately (1 Timothy 5:8)?
- Someone who allows you to exercise your spiritual gifts (1 Peter 4:10)?
- Prudent (Proverbs 19:14)?
- Not contentious or vexing (Proverbs 21:9, 25:24, 27:15, 21:19)?
- Someone who will be an industrious, contributing member of the household, fulfilling domestic duties, hospitable and kind, with a positive outlook on life, and possesses strength and dignity (Proverbs 31:13-27)?
- Someone who fears the Lord (Proverbs 31:30)?
- Chaste and respectful (1 Peter 3:2)?
- Kindhearted, not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead (1 Peter 3:8-9)?
- Someone you are happy to be with (1 Corinthians 7:40)?
- Committed to the priority of fulfilling her God-given role and responsibilities as a wife?
- An excellent woman (Proverbs 30:10)?
39 comments:
Hmmmmm. I'm going to pull a Katie and ponder this one for awhile and get back to you.
Luke, are you TRYING to scare all the ladies away?
Kidding.
Well, as far as I can see, all of these points are backed up by Scipture, by TRUTH. Anything from the Word is good and true and right.
Good outline.
T
Ahahahaha, I have a "blog move" named after me. Thanks Stephanie.
I too will pull a "Katie" and be back.
T ~ Nope, I'm not trying but I do seem to be naturally good at it. :) Oh well.
Katie ~ You should feel honored. I guess I'll just sit here and twiddle my thumbs until everyone decides to come back and share their thoughts. (I just wanted to use the word "twiddle" in a sentence!)
Twiddle is good, but say noodle out loud at least 5 times and tell me it's not the funniest word in the English language!
I will be back yet again. I have to go study and then go on to choir practice to be a songbird. :)
Will: This list is to be used to get God's heart in the matter of choosing a mate.
I don't believe in "the one".
I think we, as Christian men, should look for these biblical characteristics in women. We should naturally find these characteristics attractive because they are character traits of a Godly women. Now some of us will put more emphasis on some than others due to our different personalities.
This list isn't meant to be a "checklist". No one is going to be perfect. If you're attracted to a sister who seems to struggle with one thing on here it doesn't immediately make her "ineligible" or anything like that. But it's good to be aware.
I also highly recommend that men who are contemplating marriage study what the Word has to say about our responsibility, because it's a big one.
This list is not about what a mate needs to "live up to". I don't expect you to walk around and tally up the "scores" for different women, and then when one scores a "perfect", pursue her. It's about using the Word of God to make a wise decision. It's a very important decision, and I think too often people are ignorant of what the Word has to say about it.
Ok first thoughts:
The list sounds good to me. Those are all standards that I think God holds for women (many of them are even held outside of marriage).
I will need to check verses to confirm that is what they are saying but I don't think you are intentionally misinterpreting scripture so we'll go with it.
I agree with Will, what is the context in which you will use this list?
Are you going to walk around with it and check off the items as you find them in each girl and then Bing, Bing, Bing the first girl who hits them all is the winner and you propose on the spot (Sarcasm intended in all good fun).
I think this is picture of a Godly woman who is living in submission to God and exhibiting the characteristics that God intends for women.
Now will you find a girl that is a 10 on all of these? Probably not.
Will you find a girl who's heart yearns to be all of these and daily seeks to be molded by God to become a maturing person in Christ and therefore grow in these areas? Hopefully.
Wait a second, you don't believe in "the one"? Explain please.
I don't believe that there is one woman out there that I'm supposed to marry. I think that there are many Christian women out there that, with God at the center, we could be happily married. I don't think God ever intended to "choose" our mate for us. I think he wants us to use wisdom when we choose a mate, and I think we could make a "bad" choice, but if we follow God's Word and we seek God's heart in our decision we're not just going to get a "good" one, but somehow miss out on "God's choice".
Does that make sense?
If I may be so bold...I think 'the one' Luke is referring to is the concept of 'a soul mate'. The one person for which God has destined for you.
I've been lurking around here for this and the previous marriage conversation (all 100+ comments of it). Given that my sister just got engaged on Friday, one of my best friends (AC) got engaged a couple weeks ago, and now another Christian friend started dating someone (with the intention of marriage)...this is definitely something that I've been thinking about lately.
I follow most of the other comments though, if you believe the Bible to be the Truth there's no real argument against your list. I need to take a read through the requirements for the husband though because there are a lot of wifely requirements that certainly seem difficult (not contentious, willingly subjectful, hospitable, etc etc).
It's a lot to think about, but like Katie said, this is the image God has for His people regardless of marriage. So having given one's life over to Christ this list doesn't seem like too much of a stretch, although like the Christian walk there are struggles and stumblings and such. I think that makes the idea of this as a checklist silly, but rather you want to be mindful of these expectations when you are lead towards someone. Also keeping in mind the areas in which you would complement any of her struggles (and vice versa).
Just some thoughts, not sure if any are intelligible or not. Looking forward to other people's opinions.
Guess if I was going to answer for Luke I would have had to type faster ;)
Dan: Thanks for your comment. I appreciate the thought of looking where you may compliment her struggles and vice versa!
The idea of "the soul mate" actually was first brought for by Plato and is an entirely un-Biblical concept. It's a little bit different from the Christian concept of "the one". The soul mate theory said that we all walking around with half a soul and somewhere out there, there's another half that fits our perfectly allowing us to be complete. Well, we know as Christians that our completeness comes from Christ and none other. If you're not complete in Christ as a single, you won't be just 'cause you get married. Where-as the idea of "the one" is more an idea that God has "one" person picked out for you that is His choice for you. If you don't find God's decision for you, you're settling for a second best.
At least that's how I interpret those.
Ok I'm about to run out the door but want to throw this in the conversation ring:
I'm going to disagree with there not being a "one" for each person. Now does that mean that there can be more than one "one" that may come at different times in your life? Yes, as people who have been widowed will attest.
But I do believe that God creates a man and a woman with the intent that if it His will for them to marry that He created them for each other. Adam and Eve set this precedent. Eve was created for Adam, specifically. Throughout the Bible you see God's hand in bringing together two people who are created specifically for each other - off the top of my head: Ruth and Boaz, Solomon and the Shumalite woman, Isaac and Rebekah.
It is hard for me to think that God has willed and maked out all things in my life except the creation of my future mate. If marriage is such a picture of God's love for us, the relationship between Christ and the church, and something He created for our pleasure then I can't believe that He went as far as to create the relationship but leaves the person we are to be in marriage with up to chance.
Let me ask this. Do you think that God knows all (i.e. He knows everything that will occur in your life)? If you believe this is true, then God knows who you will marry, right? Then if He knows who you will marry how can there be any other options? If the future is already determined and God is all knowing and has the foreknowledge of all that will happen then the person you will marry is the same now as in the future, so there really aren't options as that person is your wife (but in the future). This may not make sense, and I may be opening up a different can of worms, but I would like to hear your thoughts.
Katie: Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is going to open a can of worms. Well, here goes:
First off, your Adam and Eve basis for God having "one" for each of us. God created "Woman" to fill a specific need of "man". Just because they were the first of each doesn't necessarily mean that God will continue making one specific man for each one specific woman. It doesn't mean that He won't, but it doesn't mean He will. Therefore it's not a good argument for either of us.
Ruth and Boaz: If anything this is a great argument for God allowing us to make the decision. Boaz saw Ruth gleaning in the field and he was impressed with her Godly virtue and with all she had done for her mother-in-law. It never mentions Boaz asking the Lord specifically if he should take Ruth to wife or not. He made a good decision based on Godly principles. God blessed the outcome.
Solomon and the Shumalite: (Can I safely assume you meant Shulamite?)
Most of the chapter it talks about the reason she was so well favored is because she was the best he had found. I couldn't find a reference to where God had specifically told him "This is MY choice for you."
Isaac and Rebekah: This is the one that I'm most often used to people pointing to when they believe there is "one". And this passage, can seem to point that way. However, you have to be careful about taking one story from the old testament and making it a normative behavior for us today. The reason this story was recorded was because it was abnormal, and it showed God's AWEsome power. If you're going to make that story the norm, how about the story where David goes out and gathers 1000 foreskins from his future father-in-law's enemies? Or we could wait until all the women come out to dance and we could steal them away and clip their fingernails and call them our wives. I know this is ridiculous, but I wanted to portray why I don't think you can take the story of Isaac and Rebekah and say it applies to us today. I think it's a beautiful story, and it illustrates God power and care for His chosen race, but I don't think it was meant to be a lesson on how we should choose a mate.
I do believe that God knows all. He knows every decision I will make. I do not think that means that I don't have a "choice". The fact that God knows doesn't in any way diminish the fact that I still need to make wise Godly decisions. Just becuase He knows who I'm going to choose, doesn't mean I need to get "God's decision" before I can make "my decision". If God would tell us specifically who to marry somehow, why would the Word devote it's self to principles of choosing a mate? Why would Paul need to tell us to not marry an unbeliever? God would never chose that, and if God's going to make our decision for us, why do we need to know that principle? I know some of the things I'm saying are further "down the track" that what you probably meant them, but in order to expose what I believe the fallacies are, I need to take your statements to their logical conclusions.
I think God will play a part in who I marry/if I marry. But I don't think I need to find "God's choice" before I marry. I think looking back I'll be able to see the sovereign hand of God working to bring me to a Godly woman, but He controls the outcomes of my decisions to make that happen. He does not make my decisions for me.
I hope this doesn't come across as harsh or like it's putting you down, 'cause that's not my intent at ALL. I was in the EXACT same mindset as you up until about a year ago when some wonderful teachers expounded and explained the scriptures to me on this issue. Since then it's been a process of searching and learning and understanding.
I hope this initiates some good discussion. I know that there are many people out there who would staunchly disagree with what I have just proposed. I also know that it took me awhile to even be able to study this topic with an open mind, but once I did, I was able to see the truths of God's word on this issue.
God's will is a pasture. I green lush pasture in which we can graze freely and make decisions that are bounded by the "fence" of His Word. God is not directing our heads down onto specific blades of grass and saying "eat this one", and "eat that one". He lets us choose so long as it's within his moral pasture.
Ok...*deep breathe* I'm done for now. Please take this in love, for that's how I meant it.
Luke, I've read that list before, and think it does pose important questions that need to be considered before marriage. You know that I agree with you about the "God's will" topic and the "one". And by the way...I think you did a great job explaining what you belive, and why you believe it.
I just have one question: Do you think someone could have all the qualities in the list you posted(by "have" I mean possess the qualities to some extent; obviously, no one is perfect), and yet still be an unwise choice because of personality differences, or different viewpoints on certain issues? I know a Christian guy who will make some lucky girl a great husband someday. He doesn't have any major character flaws (that I know of), and has a very close relationship with God. But I know that I will never marry him. He's like a big brother to me.
I wish I could clarify my thoughts further, but I need to run to speech class. Maybe what I'm trying to say is that I don't think the list is all-encompassing. But Greg probably didn't intend it to be.
Steff: I think the questions you raise are covered under these two bullets:
1. Someone you are happy to be with (1 Corinthians 7:40)?
2. Someone you can joyfully fulfill your sexual responsibilities to (1 Corinthians 7:3-5, Proverbs 5:15-20)?
Someone you look at as a big brother would probably not make you happy as a husband...not that this should be the overriding choice on all levels. Also, someone you view as a brother you would obviously have a harder time fulfilling your sexual obligations as a mate with.
At the same time I will not argue that this list is all encompassing. I'm sure there are other scriptures which could be brought to bare on this decision.
Heather: I have a bible study on that "Are you ready for marriage" question. It's specifically gear toward males. It was a wonderful, wonderful study for me to do. It got me digging and thinking on much more Godly terms about marriage.
On your comment "No matter how much you want to get married or you think that you are mature enough, unless you are SPIRITUALLY ready, your marriage will not last." I don't know that I'd go so far as to say it will not last, but I would predict that at best you'll have some very rocky times until you got yourself where you needed to be spiritually. I agree with what I think you meant there. :) If I'm allowed to make assumptions like that. :)
Luke- That's a great list and all. But it just doesn't apply to me cause I don't want a wife. I just don't think God wants me to have a wife. haha. :) Just kidding. It made me laugh and I guess that's all that matters right? :)
Luke – I think I’m going to leave the topic of “the one” with us respectfully disagreeing. I don’t think going back and forth on this issue would be a good thing for either of us or for anyone else reading this. I also don’t want to take away from the original intent of your post. No hard feelings on my side at all and I hope the same goes for you.
Katie: If you want to leave it at that, I'll respect that. However, if I may, I'd like to encourage you to study the broader topic of "Decision Making and the Will of God". I've come to learn that there is a lot of mistaken proof texting and a lot of misunderstanding on this subject in the body of Christ. If you'd like to email me I can recommend some resources that have been really helpful to me.
I also would love to hear your scriptural backing/evidence for "the one". I'm always open to learning more about the Word! I'm not naive enough to think I've read every single verse/passage that deals with it. I'd love to get an email from you. But like I said, tis up to you. :) I really appreciate your Christ centered focus and your thought provoking comments! Keep on Keeping on for Christ sister!
Luke:
Sorry it took me so long to get back to this: I'm down for the count with a MAJOR cold/flu thing, and so my synapses aren't quite firing at the "unusually rapid pace that they normally do" *snicker! snicker!* Anyway, here's my take on the whole deal:
As long as the scriptures line up with this list, what can we really argue with? HOWEVER. I am in full agreement with Dan, in that making a checklist seems rather silly: This is a good guideline to keep in the backs of our minds when prayerfully considering a life mate.
On the subject of the one: I'm finite, he's infinite. His plans are greater than mine, and who am I to decide what those plans are for me? So if He's in the process of getting one particular husband-man good, primed, and ready to go specifically for me, then great! If there are any number of suitable husband-men to choose from, and God will lovingly guide me in the right direction, then great too! (Too vague of an answer for you? Sorry. That's really what goes on in my head about that particular issue right now. I'll let you know when I come to a more concrete position on this one :)
I believe that we use the experiences, hints, trials, or whatever you would call them that God puts in our lives to CHOOSE our mate. It's just like our walk with Him, He isn't making us pray, read, dress modestly, or such things. Those are choices we make recommended by God that help keep our relationship with Him pure. God puts many people in our lives. I think He intends us to use the wisdom He has in the Bible so that when the object of marriage comes around we can make a good and Godly choice. I don't know if this was brought up or not but I think God will tell us if it's a good idea for us to get married. That doesn't mean that we absolutely can't get married or that God will stop loving you, it just means that it would better your relationship with Him or your walk to abstain.
As for "the one." If you believe that God has one person destined for you...I believe He will bring that one person to you. If you believe the other way, then God will help you with things in that manner. I don't think there is a set WAY that our mate is picked. Whatever our faith is is how it will be used.
Now knowing where I stand on things, I would have to say that I think your list has some very good guidelines for making a good choice. I doubt you will go from thing to thing marking who has what but, if you feel that your decision is blessed by God and they have these qualities, how can your CHOICE go wrong?
Thanks Tifani and Stephanie. That's exactly what I wanted to say. God isn't small enough to put in box. I, like Tifani, really, honestly believe that God works with who we are, what we are, and where we're at. That said, God doesn't live our lives for us either. He wants us to grow and mature and gain a healthy relationship with Him. That's what He wants for us. If that means that for some people He has to spell things out, He'll spell 'em out. If that means that He wants you to use your own decision-making skills (that, incidently, He gave to you) then so be it.
Luke - There is a minister from Indiana who puts it like this:
"I used to believe that God didn't play match-maker. I kept an open mind about who I should marry and I DECIDED to marry my wife. But since I've been married to her, I wonder if God hadn't been playing match-maker all along." Point being, you can "choose" your wife all you want (that is obviously Biblically acceptable), but once you do, treat her and your relationship with her like she was/is "the one".
Steph, Tif, and Julie: I guess my thought on the "if it's this way fine, and if it's that way fine" would be: That's a wonderful example of Godly meekness. Being humble and submissive to all God's dealings with us and counting them as good. However, with that said, I also think that it pleases God when we seek out in His Word what he's told us about how to make decisions. If God's Word directs me to wait and look for the one choice God has for me, then I want to do that. If God's Word directs me to make a wise decision based on the principles He's layed out in His Word, then I want to be pursuing that action.
The concept of "this works for you, and this works for me, and we'll just each do our own." can quickly become relativism. I'm not saying I think you believe in relativism, just that that is a dangerous line of thought.
Julie: I totally completely agree with your last statement. Once you choose to be a mate to someone, then at that point in time, they absolutely do become "the one", because there can be no other, but the issue here is, is she "the one" because God picked him/her for you, or because you applied Godly principles and choose him/her based of those?
A good parallel would be: When you're a mature adult and you're seeking a mate. Would you go to your physical father and say, "I feel like I'm ready to get married now. Please tell me who I'm supposed to marry.", or would it seem more wise to say, "I feel like I'm prepared for marriage now. I know the morals you've instilled in me and exemplified for me. I know what kind of mate you chose, and I'd love to hear any further advice you had on the subject of marriage before I go forward." Which one would please a father more? Our Father in Heaven is the same way. He wants us to come to Him for wisdom.
I just can't find Biblical evidence that we are supposed to ask God to make our decision for us. I suppose you could look at it like God wants me to make the best decision I can given the information I have. If I make that choice, then I've made God's choice... In which case you've choosen God's choice for you...but that's different than wanting God's choice and praying to God "Show me...somehow, someway, show me who." I would love to hear biblical evidence that that is how we are expected to make this decision.
btw I'm NOT saying that if you believed God made your decision for you and went ahead and got married that you "screwed up". I'm not saying that all those people who felt they got a "word from God" to get married to so and so are doomed to a life of misery. Not at all. But when I go forward in marriage I want to go forward as Biblically as I can. And ultimately that is what this whole discussion is about. What is the Biblical method. So far I haven't seen/heard any compelling evidence that God expects us to wait until He choses "the one" for us.
Once again...after I'm done writing this, I pray it does not come across as harsh or judgemental. I do not mean it that way in the least. I just desperately want my life to be as biblical as possible. I would really love it if I could hear some verses that support the viewpoint that God wants us to let Him choose for us specifically.
I would like to add one thought. I think we're all in agreement that it's Biblical and fine to choose a spouse using the Wisdom method. Just some of us think the other method is just as Biblical.
I guess then the only thing I would like is to hear scripture that supports the concept of their being one God's choice of a mate and if there is, how does the Word say I need go about finding that one God's choice.
yeah I was by no means supporting relativism. I was just meaning that, if someone believes God talks to them in a certain way...who are we to tell them that's not right and that they need to check their method.
My question is: Does the Word support that? If the Word doesn't support that, then we do have a right, even a responsiblity, to point them to God's Word and see what it says. We don't have the authority to tell them they need to check their method, but the Word does.
OK question to you: If to me I was biblically listening to what God had to say, but you were listening biblically to what God had to say differently and didn't think my method was sound...how do you have the right to tell me that the way I'm feel the Bible is talking to me is wrong? *terrible run-on...my apologies*
Tif: The Bible says what the Bible says. The Bible can't mean one thing to you and another thing to me. It means what it was written to mean.
Have you never read a verse and thought it meant one thing at one time in your life. And then read it at another point in your life and taken it a different way?
Yes I have. But I was wrong in the first interpretation. If you take scripture literally, contextualy, and historically it can only have one meaning. It has to. Otherwise everyone could assign their own personal meanings to scripture and it would mean everything and nothing all at once.
Tif: I hope I'm not frustrating you or upsetting you. That's not my intention. I just like to think about these things and this is a great forum for me to do that and get feedback. I appreciate you thoughts here! The Lord blesses those who diligently seek Him! Keep digging sister! :)
Gosh, where was this study 12 years ago when I got married at the age of 33? Oh, it was in the Bible. Ok. My wife will probably be coming after you when she reads this and you might have to change your name to something like "Sundance Kid" to hide from her. Actually she fit's in quite nicely in these scriptures and probably will be rewarded very nicely in heaven for putting up with me. Thanks for sharing.
I want to put an insertion in here. If anyone's getting frustrated with this, I apologize. That was not my intent. I love to meditate and consider God's Word. I'm thrilled that so many people have a view of scripture that they're willing to defend publicly. That's MUCH better than apathy.
Therefore let every man be convinced in his own mind...
For whatsoever is not of Faith is sin. If you don't know if it's right or wrong...and you do it anyway...it's wrong. It's exciting to know there's so many people out there who want to be sure of right and wrong!
I got an email from a friend this morning. In that email this statement was made:
"Not in your posts, but frequently in your comments, I felt that you are a little defensive and you tend to sound annoyed/frustrated. That's why I initially wrote you. But I think I'm starting to understand that you aren't annoyed/frustrated, you're just blunt."
I can totally understand that. It even sounds a little that way to me, and I wrote it. :) I apologize for my poor writing skills. My bluntness is something I need to work on. I realize it's not always a bad thing, but when it comes across in the negative light of defensive/annoyed/frustrated, then it's time to temper it.
Thank you all for putting up with me. :)
Aly Luthi emailed me this since she doesn't have a blogger account:
Hey i'm not a member of your blog, so i couldn't post this. But i thought i'd email it to you. Tell me what you think if you would like.
Luke, sorry you have never even met me! I'm Alyson from California (i go to church in Altadena). I was interested reading the debate between you and Will on whether God predestines "the one" for us. I think you are absolutely right that there is more than one person who would make a suitable "Christian" mate. Just as each individual Christian encourages us to growth if our relationship is healthfully maintained, so it can be with a spouse (whomever he/she will be).
But in the frame of mind that God is omnipresent and can see into past, present, and future, I have always been comforted by the idea of our most suitable mate in the long run being predestined for us. I believe that if we give Him complete control, God will not lead us to wander aimlessly. If his plan is marriage, He ultimately leads us to the "the (right) one". I trust this theory because its in accordance with how God directs (and says in His Word how He directs)all other aspects of our lives.
Are all other marriages outside of God's leading doomed? No not at all. No matter how good or bad our decisions, God ultimately designed and desires marriage vows to last. He wants to help us work through obstacles in our marriage regardless of how the choice for a spouse was made.
You probably don't want to listen to me! But anywho that is the conclusion I have been lead to :) Thanks for opening some healthy discussion.
Alyson: It's pretty quick and easy to sign up for a log-in name if you'd like.
T.Scott: I love you too bro. I love you too.
Raincaller: I agree it's in the "hindsight" of eternity that we see God's sovereign hand best.
If prophecy is your gift (and I know we all have many, I've heard some say that we have all but some may just lie dormant) then you needn't apologize for your bluntness. If it is not your gift then you owe us all a huge apology! :)
When in the bible does it say we are to only have one wife? When did the practice of poligamy go from being ok to sin?
IF it was (old testament) ok to have multiple wives (as many of the patriarchs did), how can there be just one "the one"? Or did that change too?
And Luke, I think God can issue a blanket rule (thou shalt not kill) and then order one specific servant (or group of servants) to act contrary to that blanket rule. After all, did not God order the Israeli army to kill ALL of their enemies multiple times?
Ok, having said that, and if the above is correct, and it may very well not be, then I think one has to admit that there may be circumstances where God wants (tells) me to do something he specifically told you not to do. So, its not just interpreting the scripture correctly, but also what God tells us as individuals. Or am I wrong and it is only Genesis to the Book of Revelations?
Oh, one more thing. “For whatsoever is not of Faith is sin. If you don't know if it's right or wrong...and you do it anyway...it's wrong.”
Can you sin from a lack of action? If so, then if you are uncertain as to what you should do, maybe by not doing it your committing a sin? Or not? And I am sure that you’re about ready to ban me, but I do like to challenge a line a thought. The responses are helpful for me to attain a deeper understanding of God’s will. Luke, I admit you’re more knowledgeable (and wise) then I am, and I am very interested to read your reactions to the above. I am enjoying this conversation immensely.
ok, so I've been following the conversation and have been silent thus far, but am going to take a chance and jump in.
I think the topic of free- will vs. predestination was touched on earlier and just wanted to add something real quick.
The best example I've heard is this: you're walking down the road of life with all these big flashy signs and worldly distractions, when you notice a small plain door over which hangs a sign that reads "whosoever will". After entering through the door you look back at it and see the words "choosen by God".
I think this provides a good picture of, salvation yes, but also of any decision we make. He leaves us to make the decsion of which one to marry, but ulimately He knows who it will be and does have a hand in it. Have you noticed when you go through some situations its hard to see any one way or specific guidance yet when looking back you can see many times that God led through and took care of the details? The only answer: God is God and I am not. Not sure if this makes sense or is coming to late,but wanted to share that illustration.
One more thought "can you sin from lack of action?" Yes. "To him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin." James 4:17
Jacob: That discussion is better for another post.
Sarah: Thanks for that great illustration!! That's a great way to look at it. It's definitely true of salvation. I'm so excited that I serve a God that can predestinate me and choose me for heaven, and at the exact same time give me a free will to choose to come to Him!!
That's so true about how, looking back we can often see God's hand controlling circumstances in our lives so that we end up where we currently are, but God does that through us making decisions. What an amazing God we serve! He can, through controlling outcomes, use our free will decisions to accomplish His sovereign plan! I guess my thought is: God doesn't expect us to "get His specific decision for us" before we can make a decision and move forward. We don't need to look for signs or confirmations. We need to look to God's Word for wisdom and seek sound counsel among others and pray that Spirit will teach us things from the Word that pertain to our situation/decision. Then when we look back we might see how God engineered circumstances to bring us to where we are now.
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